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	<title>Comments on: Games today</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.bornegames.com/2008/08/games-today/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.bornegames.com/2008/08/games-today/</link>
	<description>Flash game developer Brad Borne&#039;s personal web site.</description>
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		<title>By: stick209</title>
		<link>http://www.bornegames.com/2008/08/games-today/comment-page-2/#comment-5081</link>
		<dc:creator>stick209</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Aug 2008 22:21:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bornegames.com/?p=243#comment-5081</guid>
		<description>Cool.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cool.</p>
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		<title>By: WJUK</title>
		<link>http://www.bornegames.com/2008/08/games-today/comment-page-2/#comment-5074</link>
		<dc:creator>WJUK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 22:27:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bornegames.com/?p=243#comment-5074</guid>
		<description>Well, on the physics thing.  I think I have a sort of different perception to you.  Anything that I deem would move the way I think it would in real life is what I deem to be realistic.  And in Bloom Blox it does that (although now that you mention it, the blocks to fall a bit slowly).  But in BB, weight also plays an actual factor which is sorely missing from many physics-based games (there was a pretty good YT vid up about it).  And I&#039;d say that&#039;s pretty realistic.  I can see what you mean though.  Physics should be a feature games could boast about, but it shouldn&#039;t be their only feature.  The best way is always when the physics is applied well to gameplay.  SMG (which is actually another example for your &quot;detailed physics&quot; bit), BB, HL2 are good examples of this.

I haven&#039;t bough Braid yet, although I&#039;ve heard it is pretty awesome.  I&#039;m going to try and get my hands on some MS points to get this and hopefully Castle Crashers.  And there&#039;s also the hannabi festival on the Wii where I can get Super Mario RPG!  Wow, I sorely need money.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, on the physics thing.  I think I have a sort of different perception to you.  Anything that I deem would move the way I think it would in real life is what I deem to be realistic.  And in Bloom Blox it does that (although now that you mention it, the blocks to fall a bit slowly).  But in BB, weight also plays an actual factor which is sorely missing from many physics-based games (there was a pretty good YT vid up about it).  And I&#8217;d say that&#8217;s pretty realistic.  I can see what you mean though.  Physics should be a feature games could boast about, but it shouldn&#8217;t be their only feature.  The best way is always when the physics is applied well to gameplay.  SMG (which is actually another example for your &#8220;detailed physics&#8221; bit), BB, HL2 are good examples of this.</p>
<p>I haven&#8217;t bough Braid yet, although I&#8217;ve heard it is pretty awesome.  I&#8217;m going to try and get my hands on some MS points to get this and hopefully Castle Crashers.  And there&#8217;s also the hannabi festival on the Wii where I can get Super Mario RPG!  Wow, I sorely need money.</p>
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		<title>By: DrNeroCF</title>
		<link>http://www.bornegames.com/2008/08/games-today/comment-page-2/#comment-5070</link>
		<dc:creator>DrNeroCF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 07:16:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bornegames.com/?p=243#comment-5070</guid>
		<description>Wow, that was a long comment.  So I&#039;ll keep this one short...  On games as art, yeah, games definitely have art to them.  FPA and Block Adventure (which I did really enjoy, btw, has a great, solid platforming engine running the show, I would just recommend having platforms actually move the character, and the in game block to be the same color as the menu block), both have lots of doodles in them, but besides that point, the actual playing of the game is experiencing art in and of itself.  Art is to be interacted with, even if it&#039;s one-sided.  Gaming is the best form of digital interaction that we have today, so by my standards, it&#039;s as high an art as 1&#039;s and 0&#039;s can achieve.

Speaking of games that are artistically heavy on the visual side, anyone bought Braid on Xbox Live?  Absolutely amazing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, that was a long comment.  So I&#8217;ll keep this one short&#8230;  On games as art, yeah, games definitely have art to them.  FPA and Block Adventure (which I did really enjoy, btw, has a great, solid platforming engine running the show, I would just recommend having platforms actually move the character, and the in game block to be the same color as the menu block), both have lots of doodles in them, but besides that point, the actual playing of the game is experiencing art in and of itself.  Art is to be interacted with, even if it&#8217;s one-sided.  Gaming is the best form of digital interaction that we have today, so by my standards, it&#8217;s as high an art as 1&#8242;s and 0&#8242;s can achieve.</p>
<p>Speaking of games that are artistically heavy on the visual side, anyone bought Braid on Xbox Live?  Absolutely amazing.</p>
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		<title>By: DrNeroCF</title>
		<link>http://www.bornegames.com/2008/08/games-today/comment-page-2/#comment-5069</link>
		<dc:creator>DrNeroCF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 07:10:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bornegames.com/?p=243#comment-5069</guid>
		<description>Alright, I should probably clarify about &#039;realistic physics.&#039;

I think people need to make a distinction between &#039;detailed&#039; physics and &#039;realistic&#039; physics.

Lets put it this way:  You cite Boom Boxx (amazing game, btw) as a game with realistic physics.  True, when all the blox... er, blocks - are falling down, they all behave in a way which doesn&#039;t suspend the belief that your mind has in this make-believe world.  Looking closer at the actual physics, there&#039;s not really any friction, unless something&#039;s being pushed down on, and gravity is super slow.  The physics are detailed enough that every block can influence another in a way that your brain can follow, yet they do so in a way that is good for gameplay, or because of the limits of the system and the math.

Or, I slice my opponent upwards in Soul Calibur, the action feels meaty, there&#039;s weight there, resistance, the move has a lot of power behind it, and because of that, my opponent reacts by being flung into the air.  Realistic?  Not at all.  Conveying the appropriate data to the player?  Absolutely.

The physics in FPA aren&#039;t realistic in the slightest, they&#039;re just detailed.  Most actions get reactions, yet everything is timed according to gameplay, not according to &#039;realism.&#039;

Developers today confuse a world with realistic reactions with a world with detailed reactions.  In Metal Gear Solid, a soldier saw a footprint and followed it, that was an awesome detail.  Was the reaction realistic?  Nope.

The Force Unleashed plops the player into a world with attempted realism replacing detail.  I can grab a storm trooper, and their middle ware tells him to grab onto a crate and stay there, because they consider that realistic.  Is holding a baddie clinging onto a create not able to fling him around anymore while getting shoot by all the other baddies fun?  Not at all.

Shooting something and watching it fly into the air, or bounce around crazily, or even just make a stupid sound effect and dance around is usually more fun than shooting something and seeing it fall away &#039;realistically.&#039;

Luckily, until now, the limitations of console processing power forced developers to use detailed physics, instead of &#039;realistic&#039; physics.  I&#039;m very, very scared that &#039;realism&#039; will be the industry&#039;s next bullet point/bragging right/sales pitch (&#039;open world&#039; being the last, terrible terrible terrible idea that ruined many games, SSX: On Tour being one that I grieved for much) that developers will throw in to make their games more marketable and less unique or fun.

I do think it&#039;s funny that on IGN&#039;s latest podcast, Mark Bozon said that he preferred the Wii version of Unleashed because it had less clutter and was basically more playable, &#039;had a better flow to it&#039;, I think he said.

Also, Half Life 2 has realistic physics to an extent, but they&#039;re all tweaked in a manner that lends themselves to gameplay.  Being able to jump on creates floating on water, or getting saw blades stuck in wood, or the exaggerated way corpses react when you chuck stuff at them.  I would be inclined to call those more detailed than realistic.  Yeah, yeah, I know, Havoc, blah blah blah.  Well, Smash Bros. Brawl uses Havoc physics too ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alright, I should probably clarify about &#8216;realistic physics.&#8217;</p>
<p>I think people need to make a distinction between &#8216;detailed&#8217; physics and &#8216;realistic&#8217; physics.</p>
<p>Lets put it this way:  You cite Boom Boxx (amazing game, btw) as a game with realistic physics.  True, when all the blox&#8230; er, blocks &#8211; are falling down, they all behave in a way which doesn&#8217;t suspend the belief that your mind has in this make-believe world.  Looking closer at the actual physics, there&#8217;s not really any friction, unless something&#8217;s being pushed down on, and gravity is super slow.  The physics are detailed enough that every block can influence another in a way that your brain can follow, yet they do so in a way that is good for gameplay, or because of the limits of the system and the math.</p>
<p>Or, I slice my opponent upwards in Soul Calibur, the action feels meaty, there&#8217;s weight there, resistance, the move has a lot of power behind it, and because of that, my opponent reacts by being flung into the air.  Realistic?  Not at all.  Conveying the appropriate data to the player?  Absolutely.</p>
<p>The physics in FPA aren&#8217;t realistic in the slightest, they&#8217;re just detailed.  Most actions get reactions, yet everything is timed according to gameplay, not according to &#8216;realism.&#8217;</p>
<p>Developers today confuse a world with realistic reactions with a world with detailed reactions.  In Metal Gear Solid, a soldier saw a footprint and followed it, that was an awesome detail.  Was the reaction realistic?  Nope.</p>
<p>The Force Unleashed plops the player into a world with attempted realism replacing detail.  I can grab a storm trooper, and their middle ware tells him to grab onto a crate and stay there, because they consider that realistic.  Is holding a baddie clinging onto a create not able to fling him around anymore while getting shoot by all the other baddies fun?  Not at all.</p>
<p>Shooting something and watching it fly into the air, or bounce around crazily, or even just make a stupid sound effect and dance around is usually more fun than shooting something and seeing it fall away &#8216;realistically.&#8217;</p>
<p>Luckily, until now, the limitations of console processing power forced developers to use detailed physics, instead of &#8216;realistic&#8217; physics.  I&#8217;m very, very scared that &#8216;realism&#8217; will be the industry&#8217;s next bullet point/bragging right/sales pitch (&#8216;open world&#8217; being the last, terrible terrible terrible idea that ruined many games, SSX: On Tour being one that I grieved for much) that developers will throw in to make their games more marketable and less unique or fun.</p>
<p>I do think it&#8217;s funny that on IGN&#8217;s latest podcast, Mark Bozon said that he preferred the Wii version of Unleashed because it had less clutter and was basically more playable, &#8216;had a better flow to it&#8217;, I think he said.</p>
<p>Also, Half Life 2 has realistic physics to an extent, but they&#8217;re all tweaked in a manner that lends themselves to gameplay.  Being able to jump on creates floating on water, or getting saw blades stuck in wood, or the exaggerated way corpses react when you chuck stuff at them.  I would be inclined to call those more detailed than realistic.  Yeah, yeah, I know, Havoc, blah blah blah.  Well, Smash Bros. Brawl uses Havoc physics too <img src='http://www.bornegames.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://www.bornegames.com/2008/08/games-today/comment-page-2/#comment-5068</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 05:16:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bornegames.com/?p=243#comment-5068</guid>
		<description>Aye, no problem though. With luck such as mine one always has to carry an Ace up his sleeve to fall back on in which I&#039;m fully prepared.

However, if you ever have some sort of mechanism in mind that wouldn&#039;t work in something you had planned let me know, eh? Perhaps even an collaboration of sorts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aye, no problem though. With luck such as mine one always has to carry an Ace up his sleeve to fall back on in which I&#8217;m fully prepared.</p>
<p>However, if you ever have some sort of mechanism in mind that wouldn&#8217;t work in something you had planned let me know, eh? Perhaps even an collaboration of sorts.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: DrNeroCF</title>
		<link>http://www.bornegames.com/2008/08/games-today/comment-page-1/#comment-5067</link>
		<dc:creator>DrNeroCF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 05:07:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bornegames.com/?p=243#comment-5067</guid>
		<description>:(</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> <img src='http://www.bornegames.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':(' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://www.bornegames.com/2008/08/games-today/comment-page-1/#comment-5066</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 05:03:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bornegames.com/?p=243#comment-5066</guid>
		<description>Forget the e-mails, my ass is now ninjaed, ha.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Forget the e-mails, my ass is now ninjaed, ha.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: DrNeroCF</title>
		<link>http://www.bornegames.com/2008/08/games-today/comment-page-1/#comment-5065</link>
		<dc:creator>DrNeroCF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 05:00:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bornegames.com/?p=243#comment-5065</guid>
		<description>Second email NINJAED.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Second email NINJAED.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://www.bornegames.com/2008/08/games-today/comment-page-1/#comment-5064</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 04:57:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bornegames.com/?p=243#comment-5064</guid>
		<description>Haha, so I seen. I sent you one back with another mere question, however.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Haha, so I seen. I sent you one back with another mere question, however.</p>
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		<title>By: DrNeroCF</title>
		<link>http://www.bornegames.com/2008/08/games-today/comment-page-1/#comment-5063</link>
		<dc:creator>DrNeroCF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 04:56:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bornegames.com/?p=243#comment-5063</guid>
		<description>Already responded, Rob.  I&#039;m ninja like that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Already responded, Rob.  I&#8217;m ninja like that.</p>
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