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Fancy Pants Rayman

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Started 11 months ago by DrNeroCF
Latest reply from WJUK

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WJUK
The Lone Ranger
Post Count: 13501

DrNeroCF said:
True, but none of those games were wanted so badly that fans up and just started making them by themselves:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxXycBv3Rlk

The Sonic Cycle has merely been sidestepped, for now...

I remember that video.

The 2 main things that was wrong with the other 3D Sonic games were:
1) Gimmicks
2) SONIC IS ALL ABOUT SPEED!!!!1111

Just looking back, whoever thought it would be a good idea to add a whole cast of sidekicks needs to be shot. Several times. All they needed was to compare their new games with the new Mario games. They stuck to their roots of keeping story to a minimum and bringing gameplay to the forefront. Then there was the ideas like Sonic turning into a werehog etc. I'm not sure why they thought that was a good idea.

Part of the problem was also when you try to focus on speed, it's hard to allow user to control it completely and make the gameplay flow (without some great skill on the player's part). So in a lot of the 3D games they added a lot of segments which were essentially more like cutscenes with the amount of interaction that player's had.

That being said, I haven't played Sonic Generations properly myself. Might pick it up later (been busy with Skyrim)... after Skyward Sword first.

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Posted 5 months ago #
DrNeroCF
aka Brad Borne
Post Count: 703

I can't find the quote now, but awhile back, SEGA had commented on why they have to do things like other playable characters and the werehog, they just couldn't build enough 3d content for you to run through as Sonic.

Which to me, just sounds like Sonic Team themselves believe that Sonic is all about speed, instead of slowing him down and focusing on flow.

Though, if Super Mario 3D Land can create a ton of 3d levels, while abandoning the 'reuse levels and come back for stars' hook, I'd think Sonic could, too. Our level creation tools are way more advanced nowadays. Look at something like Mod Nation Racers, or Flower. A proper 3D Sonic in one procedural level creation tool away. No reason Sega can't create wide open spaces for Sonic to run around in.

Of course, I might be thinking of how I would make a 3D FPA game, instead of a proper Sonic game, heh.

Though I still think, if SEGA thinks they need to split Sonic into two play styles, instead of reconciling the two, then I am just disappoint.

Doodle, sketch, draw, design, fill notebooks with elaborate scenes, funny character designs, and gameplay ideas.
Find your own personal style and run with it. Craft characters and stories that you love.
Enjoy your own work, and donâ€™t be afraid to show it off. Create.

Posted 5 months ago #
wingdemon
Member
Post Count: 2748

throwing my 2 cents in:

Shadow the Hedgehog

*shudders*

that game was ... well sonic with guns, *shudders again*

EDIT: though i did like Sonic Riders. its was actually very good in my opinion.

Posted 5 months ago #
hajg96
Member
Post Count: 1748

The only "good" game based on Sonic & Co. was Sonic riders: zero gravity... I had fun playing it... really...

FFA FAN CLUB RANK: HRM!

Posted 5 months ago #
WJUK
The Lone Ranger
Post Count: 13501

they just couldn't build enough 3d content for you to run through as Sonic.

You're kidding, right? That sounds like the worst reason I've ever heard.

While procedurally-generated levels would be a cool concept, I think carefully crafted levels are the way to go with Sonic personally. When done right, the levels just feel... well, right.

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Posted 5 months ago #

Magical rainbow ponies
DrNeroCF
aka Brad Borne
Post Count: 703

WJUK said:
You're kidding, right? That sounds like the worst reason I've ever heard.

While procedurally-generated levels would be a cool concept, I think carefully crafted levels are the way to go with Sonic personally. When done right, the levels just feel... well, right.

Yeah, I'll have to find that interview again, it was one of the most depressingly enlightening things I've read.

I definitely prefer professionally created content to procedural content, or even user created content, but I think there's a flow to each level that dictates how much attention is needed in each piece of level.

If Sonic is given longer stretches of, say, rolling hills, those could be generated, then once the level flow transitions back to platforming, level designers could build pieces by hand again.

Kind of hard to explain, when I build levels, there's a flow: give the player some space, let them run a bit, then tighten things up and demand more precision from them, like with a wall jumping section or a bunch of baddies, or such, then open up again to let the player stretch their legs a bit more again. Pacing in level design, I guess?

Looser parts of levels would take up the most room, but they would also demand the least amount of design attention. An engine should be able to fill in the blanks, even if a designer has to do a bit of tweaking to what it comes up with.

Anyways, that's how I would fix Sonic, from a technical level, at least, heh.

Doodle, sketch, draw, design, fill notebooks with elaborate scenes, funny character designs, and gameplay ideas.
Find your own personal style and run with it. Craft characters and stories that you love.
Enjoy your own work, and donâ€™t be afraid to show it off. Create.

Posted 5 months ago #

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ICARAX
Moderator
Post Count: 3086

Now for a very short post. Thank You very much!

LOL and to ontopic.

Im sort of confused on your talk here. You want to "fill in the blanks" by getting rid of white stuff? explanation if i may ask for one please.

This signature requires LEVEL 4 CLEARANCE, which you OBVIOUSLY dont have. Have a nice day.
click here

Posted 5 months ago #

Secret
redligot2009
Member
Post Count: 1138

WAll STReETtt

I love AS3 ._. I also like AS2
and I Like Pie
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." - Albert Einstein

Posted 5 months ago #
WJUK
The Lone Ranger
Post Count: 13501

DrNeroCF said:
Yeah, I'll have to find that interview again, it was one of the most depressingly enlightening things I've read.

I definitely prefer professionally created content to procedural content, or even user created content, but I think there's a flow to each level that dictates how much attention is needed in each piece of level.

If Sonic is given longer stretches of, say, rolling hills, those could be generated, then once the level flow transitions back to platforming, level designers could build pieces by hand again.

Kind of hard to explain, when I build levels, there's a flow: give the player some space, let them run a bit, then tighten things up and demand more precision from them, like with a wall jumping section or a bunch of baddies, or such, then open up again to let the player stretch their legs a bit more again. Pacing in level design, I guess?

Looser parts of levels would take up the most room, but they would also demand the least amount of design attention. An engine should be able to fill in the blanks, even if a designer has to do a bit of tweaking to what it comes up with.

Anyways, that's how I would fix Sonic, from a technical level, at least, heh.

That sounds logical. It also depends on the setting usually, if you have themed levels you can experiment with different things. I remember the old Sonic games, where levels like Green Hill Zone basically did what you suggested but other ones (Casino Night etc.) presented a more enclosed space usually.

As for the engine, it would definitely be possible. Looking at the technology for procedurally generated content on the market, you could do some really nice things. But I could never see the current Team Sonic going for it. Mainly because for most of the 3D games they want to work in some semblance of a story (for the better... or worse), they also like to throw in set-pieces (running on a dragon etc.). And it becomes more difficult to do that with procedural levels.

Not to mention, creating an engine that would design levels well and enough "pieces" to make it varied enough would be a nice challenge. Don't forget that there should be multiple paths in a level!
I think it'd be easier to just create levels. That being said, I'd love to see something like this (endless Sonic levels, anyone?).

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Posted 5 months ago #
dogman
Member
Post Count: 51

rougelike sonic game ?? that would be interesting.

Posted 5 months ago #

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DrNeroCF
aka Brad Borne
Post Count: 703

WJUK said:
That sounds logical. It also depends on the setting usually, if you have themed levels you can experiment with different things. I remember the old Sonic games, where levels like Green Hill Zone basically did what you suggested but other ones (Casino Night etc.) presented a more enclosed space usually.

As for the engine, it would definitely be possible. Looking at the technology for procedurally generated content on the market, you could do some really nice things. But I could never see the current Team Sonic going for it. Mainly because for most of the 3D games they want to work in some semblance of a story (for the better... or worse), they also like to throw in set-pieces (running on a dragon etc.). And it becomes more difficult to do that with procedural levels.

Not to mention, creating an engine that would design levels well and enough "pieces" to make it varied enough would be a nice challenge. Don't forget that there should be multiple paths in a level!
I think it'd be easier to just create levels. That being said, I'd love to see something like this (endless Sonic levels, anyone?).

Oh, no I don't mean that an engine would actually design a level, it would just populate it, like the track editor in ModNation Racers.

But yes, Sonic + Terrible Story + Gimmicks =

Doodle, sketch, draw, design, fill notebooks with elaborate scenes, funny character designs, and gameplay ideas.
Find your own personal style and run with it. Craft characters and stories that you love.
Enjoy your own work, and donâ€™t be afraid to show it off. Create.

Posted 5 months ago #
hajg96
Member
Post Count: 1748

Returning on the title topic, I have to say that if I (my parents)am ever going to buy a PS3, the first 2 games will The Fancy Pants Adventures and Rayman Origins... they both look very very funny... especially the multiplayer thingy...

FFA FAN CLUB RANK: HRM!

Posted 5 months ago #
WJUK
The Lone Ranger
Post Count: 13501

I actually played it today... and I really enjoyed it.

Like, seriously, if you enjoy co-op platformers (like FPA) this is one of the smoothest games I've played. It plays really well and has a fun "competitive co-operative" aspect.

I definitely recommend this to anyone who can get it (and has friends to play with).

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Posted 5 months ago #
redligot2009
Member
Post Count: 1138

Rayman origins is awesome.

I love AS3 ._. I also like AS2
and I Like Pie
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." - Albert Einstein

Posted 5 months ago #
hajg96
Member
Post Count: 1748

WJUK said:
I actually played it today... and I really enjoyed it.

Like, seriously, if you enjoy co-op platformers (like FPA) this is one of the smoothest games I've played. It plays really well and has a fun "competitive co-operative" aspect.

I definitely recommend this to anyone who can get it (and has friends to play with).

How's the gameplay? I mean: is it similar to FPA's one?

FFA FAN CLUB RANK: HRM!

Posted 5 months ago #
redligot2009
Member
Post Count: 1138

@hagj actually it's slightly similar to fpa.

I love AS3 ._. I also like AS2
and I Like Pie
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." - Albert Einstein

Posted 5 months ago #
WJUK
The Lone Ranger
Post Count: 13501

If we're talking broadly, it's quite similar. You can choose to work together or work against each other quite easily.

The animations are really crisp and the gameplay is solid. Small details like how you die and get revived, by means of a your friends popping your bubble (which incidentally, came from Mario) make it a very fun and smooth-flowing game.

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Posted 5 months ago #
DrNeroCF
aka Brad Borne
Post Count: 703

I definitely didn't mean to imply that it's not a good game, what I've played already was pretty great, I just got extremely frustrated with the 1 - 2 hit deaths, heh. Would probably be more fun in co-op for me.

Doodle, sketch, draw, design, fill notebooks with elaborate scenes, funny character designs, and gameplay ideas.
Find your own personal style and run with it. Craft characters and stories that you love.
Enjoy your own work, and donâ€™t be afraid to show it off. Create.

Posted 5 months ago #
WJUK
The Lone Ranger
Post Count: 13501

While the one-hit death (unless you pick up extra health) can be frustrating. I think it's pretty pivotal to the gameplay. A lot of it would be useless if you could get hit and be invincible for a while.

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Posted 5 months ago #

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